clip of a response I made in Philosophy....

[novapsyche]

Original post:

Does it make any difference to God if we do good?
If it does not than He is an indifferent God, unworthy of worship.
If it does, than is this difference positive in nature or negative in nature?
If it is negative in nature, than He is evil, and therefore unworthy of worship.
If it is positive in nature than He is imperfect, since His finite creation is affecting His state, and He is therefore unworthy of worship.


I've thought along related lines in the last month or so. Here's a page from my Spiritual Journal:

See, it is I [the Lord] who created the blacksmith
who fans the coals into flame
and forges a weapon fit for its work.
And it is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc;...
Isaiah 54:16 (NIV)

This verse clearly shows the author's cosmology: that the Most High God did indeed create those who would promote 'evil'. Therefore, 'evil' (or, perhaps, 'entropy') serves as part of God's plan. No one today would want to say that about a merciful God. "Why would God send us awful, terrible things? If that is what God is, then I don't want to worship that God. I want a God that has and wants nothing to do with evil."

... He is an indifferent God, unworthy of worship.

What human can say what makes or could make God unworthy of worship? That is another form of putting human limits on a limitless entity/concept; it cannot be done. God cannot be circumscribed, either physically or conceptually.

That that is God is, can, and will be worshipped. This will happen whether God is deemed "worthy" or not.

Comments

[zulko.livejournal.com]

I enjoy your entries immensely. welcome to my list.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

*smile* Thanks for the compliment. (Both compliments, actually!) :)

On God.

[ryoganox.livejournal.com]

"Therefore, 'evil' (or, perhaps, 'entropy') serves as part of God's plan."

Without good, one cannot have evil, or visa versa. For without good or evil, How can you know what is right and wrong. Like the story of Adam and Eve, they were without sin/evil, because they didn't know of sin/evil. Or from Catholicism a child who dies before his/her Confermation is guarenteed passage to Heaven, having only been born to one sin up to that point. They are still considered innocent Lambs of God.


"What human can say what makes or could make God unworthy of worship? That is another form of putting human limits on a limitless entity/concept; it cannot be done. God cannot be circumscribed, either physically or conceptually."

This is my view, why I feel God is Male/Female/Genderless. I feel to place even a gender limits the limitless that I view God to be. I use God as an easy shortcut reference to the Greater Powers That Be, which is what I actually think the name should be. Again, it is just a name a Label, used to make reference to a person, thing, or concept.


a quote from an interview with Ghandi on his views of Christians.
"I like you Christ. I don't like your Christians." Ghandi

Re: On God.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Without good, one cannot have evil, or visa versa. For without good or evil, How can you know what is right and wrong.

I still don't believe in "right & wrong", per se. I believe in a continuum of good, which to humans is perceived as a dualistic system, the poles of which we've come to call "good/right" and "bad/wrong". This is all human perception; thus it can only approximate the whole truth; it cannot comprise it.

Someone else in Philosophy stated something I'd omitted: that God is love, and there can be no love or free will without evil, without the choice between good and evil. To me, Christianity misses the mark by emphasizing the system of good and evil, when it should (IMO) emphasize the choice that emerges out of the system.

Re: On God.

[ryoganox.livejournal.com]

1.) "...it can only approximate the whole truth; it cannot comprise it."

2.) "Christianity misses the mark by emphasizing the 'system' of good and evil, when it should (IMO) emphasize the choice that emerges out of the system."

1.) Correct, and I agree it is the limit of human perception. Good/Evil are concepts in which we have labeled along with them as right and wrong. We are labeling creatures as a whole. On a basic level, give it a name and you can have power over it. You can understand and hold something with a name. I use the term of good and evil as labels to dictate what I feel is right and wrong. or as I would say, "I try to live my life fully, with my Faith as an assistant for my choices. It helps guide my decisions to be the best ones I can make, given the situation.

2.) I agree, It seems often that the What someone did is emphasized when the why is ignored. And because of that, all to often, one gets stuck in the formality of the the rules/words of God, and not the spiritual meaning behind the reasons of said Rules/Words. Now my HO, The system of good and evil as outlined in Christianity was and is ment to be a guidline of how to be "good/moral" Not the dogmatic stipulation that it has become.

I rather like the fact that you point out, The Choice of right and wrong. I have always held onto a guidline that one is responsible for their actions regardless of situation. People tend to view this that see them as bad. that is not the point I am trying to make with that statement. It is simply that you had the choice to commit said action. There are always choices, it is your job to decide which is the best course of action given the situation. for example: If you drink get drunk and go out driving, you are responsible for anything that may happen based on you decision to get into said situation. Does that mean you are wrong/right/good/evil for doing so? no. The situation does dictate that. But not the act of driving drunk, in this case. If you wreck the car and hurt someone, you are accountable for your choice, and in this case, will face the consequences of such actions.

I think my views were greatly changed by my Mother when I was a child, having moved back for the last time at her house. We were talking about my dad, they were devorced, and what he has said about her to me. I mentioned my dad told me that

"she was going to hell, because she is commiting adultry cause the chuch never acknowledge or okayed their divorce."

Her response to the statement has stuck with me forever. And it is what I will forever hold as the strength a parent should have.

"If my going to hell, is going to get my children to Heaven, then I will go willingly."


Ryan

[kittenkissies.livejournal.com]

I feel that all evil is purely ignorance.

[fredsanford.livejournal.com]

"What human can say what makes or could make God unworthy of worship?"

Me. I can say God is unworthy of worship. What God, or any other entity, can decide for me what I feel is worthy of worship? Worth is in the hands of the person making the judgement. If God wants me to worship him(her?) then that entity is going to have to comply with my standards.

And no God recorded by man is worthy of worship, IMO.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

God cannot be recorded by man. God is boundless; God is beyond words or songs or sounds or thoughts.

We cannot know if God wants worship. Throughout the ages, many have put forth the opinion that God may want adoration, appreciation, love. What is worship but devout adoration? If one glimpses God, instead of just relying on the texts that have been handed down through human history, then one will inwardly react to God. Often this shows itself as awe and veneration; sometimes it is sensed as fear and rejection. The inner individual, which is the only individual who truly has a relationship with the divine, will "make the decision", so to speak. The worship, if there is to be any, will be made by the part of one that is beyond reason. Reason has no place in worship.

If you worship a reasonable God, you worship no God. The Greeks believed that being reasonable was a form of worship; but that relationship goes one way, not both.

Re:

[fredsanford.livejournal.com]

I'm sure some might tell you that your words are wise. I'm saying your words are just preachy.

On top of that, you detoured the point, and elected to focus on the phrase "recorded by man", which is what all this speculative preaching you are unleashing here is. You write down and say God is beyond words or songs or sounds or thoughts. Hot damn, I guess that must mean it's true.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

I know I'm preachy. I apologize. I didn't used to be this bad (I used to be way more pagan than Christian); and I am trying to be better. It's my pretentiousness--I've had it since I started writing poetry.

May I ask how you came across my page? :)

Re:

[fredsanford.livejournal.com]

Actually, through your poetry, which I like.