(no subject)

[novapsyche]

The Male Privilege Checklist -- I hadn't seen this before.

Comments

[xterminal.livejournal.com]

Am I right to be reading "imitation" as "parody" in the subtitle?

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think so. More like a homage.

[xterminal.livejournal.com]

In that case, there way too much wrong with the list for a comment; it will require an entire post, which I'm not sure I'm up to right now. Hmm, which makes me think I might as well just make it into an impossible task-- combine both into a white male privilege list and start poking holes...

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I got, too. Some of those so-called "privileges" are laughable, others simple biology, and other a matter of perception. I could make a similar list of the "privileges" of women that's equally biased, but what's the point?

[vaxjedi]

Just because something is simple biology doesn't mean it isn't an unequal distribution of power, whether people did it or nature did.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

You seem to be assuming that the author of the article is female.

I think a more analogous approach would be to come up with your own list of male privilege. Or do you honestly believe that men are not afforded privilege in this (and many other) countries and cultures? If your answer is negative, then it might be an interesting if not eye-opening exercise to examine the issue of privilege from such a self-critical stance.

[xterminal.livejournal.com]

Wait, wait--

uhm, we agree on something?

Do you hear the Four Horsemen in the distance, approaching?

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

Hooo, boy... do I have a few nits to pick:

#5: "The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible. "

I would strongly contest this. It's easily demonstrable that (a) men don't report sexual harassment when it happens, at much higher rates of non-reporting than for women, and (b) men are socialized to think something's wrong with them if they don't like female attention.

#17: "As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default. "

Non-stereotyped? Excuse, but what sort of crack have you been smoking? Let's start listing: GI Joe, Wrestler dolls, Rambo/Terminator/Die Hard. There is a distinct lack of nuturing-male stereotypes in most mainstream media.

#25: "There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world. "

I disagree; all clothing communicates a social message. Mousy brown suit? Conservative Republican. Clean white shirt and jeans? Conservative jock. Even 'neutral' messages have value judgments associated with them.

#42: "If I am heterosexual, it's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover. "

But chances are somewhat better that you will suffer extensive verbal abuse, the socially-approved weapon of choice for women, and that you will be ridiculed for "allowing" it to happen. There are no shelters for men in the USA, very few programs for male victims, and little social acknowledgment that verbal abuse is abuse at all.

[vaxjedi]

men are socialized to think something's wrong with them if they don't like female attention.

However I think that men are socialized to think that female attention is desirable and are less likely to see it as harrassment.

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

I think the way I said it misplaced the emphasis -- it isn't the harassed male, but his counterparts who will pooh-pooh the idea that he is being sexually harassed.

[dionysus1999.livejournal.com]

I take issue with #30, men who report some kinds of male on male violence will be considered less than a man, and even the law will laugh at him.

Its a stereotype of the white male. On the whole, though, I think these are relatively accurate. The caveat being that no one man will fit half of them.

[vaxjedi]

There are always howls of protest from someone when they are under scrutiny, deserved or not. A similar list of priviledges that women have would get a similar set of howls, once again, deserved or not

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

"deserved or not" basically makes it sound like you don't even care if these lists are valid or not, so long as you have something to complain about. If there are so-called "deserved" howls of complaint, then take those freakin' items off of the list! Adding tons of fluff for its own sake, just so you have a long list rather than one three items long, is NOT A VALID DEBATE TECHNIQUE.

[brendand.livejournal.com]

#1. Explain that to me... why can't I find a job?

#8. Doesn't mean I didn't learn it.

#40. WHAT?!

#41. Since when!?

#42. More reason this should be called something other than simply "the male privilege checklist."

#43. I'm not at all unaware of what advantages I have. But I most certainly contest that everything on that list is an "advantage" to me.

[vaxjedi]

#1. I think the point is that no one is looking at you and saying 'Don't hire the male!' Of course, like sarahmichigan points out, that does happen in some occupations (I remember seeing a very 'spirited' discussion on why men can't be midwives, for example). But I expect that's the exception, not the rule.

#8. The difference once again, is systemic. You learned it, not specifically because you are male and that simply being male makes you a likelier target.

#42. I agree that a lot of these apply a lot more to straight men then just men. But straight men ARE the majority.

[brendand.livejournal.com]

Well, I would argue the only appropriate time to overgeneralize is when talking about idiotic republicans. But that may just be me. ;)

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

I think most of the stuff about jobs has to be qualified with "depending on the field."

There's definitely anti-male bias in certain professions, as you saw with your one job that didn't want to hire male attendants.

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

As someone who has been discriminated against for a disability, I'd quite frankly rather not be discriminated against at all. Period.

nursing.

[magicmaiden.livejournal.com]

I am a toolmaker, my brother is a nurse. We both experienced quite a bit of discrimination and harassment because we were not the dominant gender in the field.

Also, I think men get sexually abused as boys as much and likely at a much higher rate than women. Sure, this may change in adulthood but I blame a lot of the abuse in adulthood on the abuse to our children.

I have no studies to prove this (yet) but it seems as society becomes safer for men to come out to, (not as gay but as abused) I see more and more men speaking of this. Same thing for them as for gals...abusers are usually (almost entirely) folks they know.

I think the list is redundant.

I am glad it was created and think it might be fun to do this myself as I have studied this for most of my life. Sort of what happens when you don't "fit" the mold.

Chuckles...but that is the thing...no one does really. Just so many try to.

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

I think class and race play into this equation as well. Black females often have an advantage over black males in well-paying fields because they're seen as "less threatening."

And at the lowest socio-economic levels, say competing for a nurses aide job, my comment still stands. If a man and a woman of similar education and background apply for that nurses aide job, the woman will probably get the job, and not the male, and the man isn't going to get any comfort from the thought that for a higher-paying tech job, *he* would have the advantage, because he isn't qualified for that higher-paying tech job.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Privilege is such an incendiary, but necessary, thing to bring up -- because people do not want to admit that they have advantages which they take for granted that come at the expense of other people.

It's also a very difficult thing to communicate successfully, and unfortunately these privilege lists (there's one for white people, one for straight people, one for non-disabled people, one for cis-gendered people, and so on) come up short IMO in really demonstrating the scope and magnitude of the advantage conferred by privilege. IOW, privilege is even bigger than it would seem to be by this list, though the list is a first attempt to show people with privilege what benefits they have which they take for granted and which women/people of color/queer/disabled do not.

[guttaperk.livejournal.com]

Male privilege is gargantuan, but patchy.
Female privilege is smaller, but exists in some crucial areas of life.

It's easy for either side to dismiss the area that does not pinch them.