(no subject)

[novapsyche]

As it seems relevant again, I'll link portions of my paper "Women, the Body, and Transcendence: Philosophy and the Fight Over Pornography", which I wrote during my last year in college.

Thanks to those who've participated in my poll. It's interesting to hear what other people think.

Comments

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

You know, I agree with most of what you say until the end. I don't think either mind-body dualism or "objectification" are that big of a deal. We treat people in a variety of professions (athletes come to mind) as objects and they still don't have the stigma attached to them that porn an prostitution do. As long as you are cognizant of objectifying someone, I don't see it as that big of a deal, as compared to unthinking objectification. hell, I ENJOY objectifying and being objectified during sex-- that's part of what makes it dirty and fun!

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

I don't think either mind-body dualism or "objectification" are that big of a deal.

Well, I have a huge problem with the mind-body dualism as one of the most entrenched undergirdings of Western philosophy. It is where much of the historical justifications for sexism is rooted.

As long as you are cognizant of objectifying someone, I don't see it as that big of a deal, as compared to unthinking objectification.

I agree with this, at least as a comparison. :) But even when a bigot is cognizant of his or her bigoted views, if he or she still holds to them, does that alter the nature of the views?

hell, I ENJOY objectifying and being objectified during sex-- that's part of what makes it dirty and fun!

Well, I certainly agree with this now. *smile* You have to consider that I wrote this when I was in my idealistic phase as a feminist. And even when I wrote the conclusion, I knew it was kind of pie-in-the-sky.

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

What I was trying to say was something more along the lines of: "I know I'm treating you as an object in this sexual context, but it doesn't mean that I don't respect you or that I will treat you as an object outside of the bedroom." To me, sexual objectification (in personal relationships, anyway) is not that different than roleplaying or any other kind of sexual game, as long as both people know that it's a game and that the ramifications don't extend outside the bedroom. Similarly, I think that men are able to enjoy women as objects in porn or as prostitutes without carrying that attitude over into their everyday interactions with women. Some men cannot make that mental switch-over, but I think that's a problem with the way they were raised to regard sex differences, and not necessarily as a result of porn. Chicken-egg kinda thing.

I don't think mind-body dualistic thinking is so problematic in and of itself as it's problematic because of the faulty conclusions people draw from dualistic thinking. I think it's natural, probably even functional to think in terms of the mind/body split. I don't think we have a mind separate from the body, but it's hard to talk about personal experience in language that doesn't at least hint at mind-body dualism. I'm sorry I’m not being overly articulate here. I could probably explain what I’m trying to say better face-to-face.

[cheshyre]

BTW, I've been really liking your posts on Ginmar's threads. Dunno if you've seen this already but somebody on my friends list posted New Zealand's health & safety manual for sex-workers (pdf).

Pretty cool, actually, and one of the reasons for legalization imo.