that's REALLY interesting. i cant figure out what it means. so if youre serious... and not just saying something, im curious. what do you mean by self?
I also posted this here on abstractthought. But a response I gave to someone there explained my position pretty well, so I'll repost it here.
*** The thought I had was kind of an intuitive play on words, though I didn't recognize it at the time.
The first instance of "possess" was to me akin to spiritual possession, ala exorcism and all that. A self, what I would call "myself", pervades my existence. Some call this a soul, or spirit. I relate to "myself" just as we all do. It is an intrinsic part of me.
However, for me ultimately, I do not "possess" a self. That is, I do not own a self. Cosmically, I own nothing, not even my own body. My body is just me; there is no need to claim ownership. (Further, if I owned my body, would that make me both the slaver and the enslaved?)
I suppose this may come down to the questions, "How does one relate to oneself?" and "What makes a person a person?" How do I know that I am me? I can't know it; I just feel it to be true.
As for the question of how do I relate to myself, sometimes I talk to myself in both the first and second person (though not third person). What does that signify? Sometimes I am a "me" to myself; other times I am a "you", yet still understood to refer to the "me". Does that mean, in Freudian language, that my superego and my ego/self are arguing or positing over my id?
Julian Jaynes, in The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind suggests the existence of 'the analog "I"', an existential space generated by experiential knowledge that oneself can reflect upon. This reflection gives the appearance of a self, one separate and distinct from others as well as one's surroundings. But if that "I" is imagined--produced only by way of the continuity of consciousness due to memory and other brain processes--then what is the "I"? What is the self?
yea, possess is an awful way to express that the 2nd time around although the first time, most people would say that they possess a self, a body rather than having it the other way around...
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(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-24 12:22 am (UTC)that's REALLY interesting. i cant figure out what it means. so if youre serious... and not just saying something, im curious. what do you mean by self?
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-25 10:05 am (UTC)***
The thought I had was kind of an intuitive play on words, though I didn't recognize it at the time.
The first instance of "possess" was to me akin to spiritual possession, ala exorcism and all that. A self, what I would call "myself", pervades my existence. Some call this a soul, or spirit. I relate to "myself" just as we all do. It is an intrinsic part of me.
However, for me ultimately, I do not "possess" a self. That is, I do not own a self. Cosmically, I own nothing, not even my own body. My body is just me; there is no need to claim ownership. (Further, if I owned my body, would that make me both the slaver and the enslaved?)
I suppose this may come down to the questions, "How does one relate to oneself?" and "What makes a person a person?" How do I know that I am me? I can't know it; I just feel it to be true.
As for the question of how do I relate to myself, sometimes I talk to myself in both the first and second person (though not third person). What does that signify? Sometimes I am a "me" to myself; other times I am a "you", yet still understood to refer to the "me". Does that mean, in Freudian language, that my superego and my ego/self are arguing or positing over my id?
Julian Jaynes, in The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind suggests the existence of 'the analog "I"', an existential space generated by experiential knowledge that oneself can reflect upon. This reflection gives the appearance of a self, one separate and distinct from others as well as one's surroundings. But if that "I" is imagined--produced only by way of the continuity of consciousness due to memory and other brain processes--then what is the "I"? What is the self?
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-25 11:05 am (UTC)yea, possess is an awful way to express that the 2nd time around although the first time, most people would say that they possess a self, a body rather than having it the other way around...
hmmm
Date: 2001-12-24 07:17 pm (UTC)Definitely something worth tossing around in the noggin for a little while.
is it true?
Date: 2001-12-25 10:50 am (UTC)about the self - there is this great quote that i found: "god is a fire in the head."
have a chaotic christmas.
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-27 02:57 pm (UTC)You now have a matched interest. Light Energy. Indeed.