I write tomato, you sing ketchup.

[novapsyche]

Bob Dylan does not deserve this snobbery and pedantry: Academics need to stop pretending that pop lyrics have no literary worth, writes Michael Horovitz (seen in choriamb)

The article is well-written. However, there is something to the "snobbery" that many poets have towards pop lyrics. A lot of pop lyrics barely utilize the amount of craft that academic poetry does. I'm a fan of slant rhyme, for example, but even I couldn't get away with some of the rhymes that songs do unless I were writing a song. Popular lyrics have a lot more leeway because they are melded with the accompaniment (especially if the melody comes before the words do); also, much doggerel can be catapulted into cultural dominance due to the notation that buoys it. A good musical progression can lead listeners to forgive mediocre lyrics.

Comments

[vaxjedi]

"A lot of pop lyrics barely utilize the amount of craft that academic poetry does."

Prose has much more 'leeway' than poetry. I mean, it doesn't even have to rhyme. Does that mean it requires less craft? Looked at a different way, poetry requires less craft than pop lyrics - the poet doesn't have to pay attention to meshing with a melody at all.

Or is it that pop lyrics utilize a different type of craft, just as prose is a different craft from poetry? They all use words, yes. But it's not that it allows more 'leeway' as it is just a different animal.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Prose has much more 'leeway' than poetry. I mean, it doesn't even have to rhyme.

Poetry doesn't have to rhyme, either. You know that as well as I do.

Does that mean it requires less craft?

No, but it means that it requires as much attention to craft for it to be successful.

Looked at a different way, poetry requires less craft than pop lyrics - the poet doesn't have to pay attention to meshing with a melody at all.

That depends on whom you ask. As far as I'm concerned, for lyric poetry (which is what most poetry written in the United States is, as opposed to narrative poetry), music has to be in the line or it fails as a piece. That may not mean that there is a melody, but there has to be a strain of rhythm, tone and sound that brings the piece to life.

Or is it that pop lyrics utilize a different type of craft, just as prose is a different craft from poetry? They all use words, yes. But it's not that it allows more 'leeway' as it is just a different animal.

I know that composition is a very detailed art and that a lyricist must craft hir music and verse precisely. What I'm saying is, at times the notation itself can supercede the verse in popular music. The analogy in prose or poetry would be humming, with which one generally cannot get away.

[bonerici.livejournal.com]

I'm not much of a judge on what's good or bad lyrics, I just know what I like, for instance, I think Bob Dylan never wrote a decent lyric in his life, why use that no talent hack for an example, so I've never understood why anyone ever listened to him, but I think you're right pure poetry can be crafted into much more complicated forms than lyrics can.

On the other hand, I think there's a general rule that the more you pay people to perform a certain thing, the higher the quality of work (in general here, not in particular) you'll get. So if you look at NBA players they get paid millions and are some of the best ball players on the planet, but our soccer players are some of the worst, and I'm certain the number one reason is that we just pay our soccer players much money.

So I sometimes have this sneaking suspicion that some of the best poets don't write poems, they write lyrics, because that's where the money is.

But then I hear songs like the black eyed peas my hump my hump my lovely little lumps (check it out) and well that ruins that theory doesn't it? Like you said, if you got a good beat you can get away with some really awful lyrics.

[johanna-hypatia.livejournal.com]

I was a big fan of Brian Eno's music in the '70s, especially Another Green World which I personally rated the best album I'd ever heard, back then. I loved Eno's songs so much, it was a big letdown when I transcribed the lyrics and found them completely inane on the page. Eno was a genius musically but did not write lyrics that could hold up on their own. He just used them for sonic effect when blended into the musical arrangements, which is where his real mastery lay.