willful and not-so-willful ignorance
Jun. 22nd, 2008 05:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
novapsyche3 in 10 Americans admit to racial bias | comments attached to article
I ended up going to the party (I wanted to promote my poetry, but I never ended up doing so, although I did show my chapbook to J., the host).
T., a gentleman in his 50s, took an immediate interest in me, and we got to talking about various things. However, he kept bringing up assumptions. For example, when I told him I grew up in Belleville, he asked if my father had worked in the auto factories. T. let it be known that he grew up on the south side of Chicago (I immediately thought of that clip I just talked about this week).
When we were downstairs listening to music (something contemporary was on), he went out of his way to get J. to change the music to James Brown. The three of us were talking, so at one point I asked them this question (with the caveat that I didn't mean anything bad about this, I just wanted to ask the question):
Why is it, when a black person is involved in a conversation in a majority of white people, that certain white people will mention a black person of status?
I went on to say that this was a phenomenon that may be more prevalent now since Barack Obama has won the Democratic ticket. Yet, I'd seen this behavior often for the last two years. (T. said, "Two?" and I nodded.)
Then they both said that they liked the music of the 70s, and I said I love jazz and funk music, too. It was a synthesis of sound. J. said, "Well, I could talk about the Beatles." (I didn't mention at that point that the Beatles themselves had acknowledged that they had taken the style of black music of that era and sold it back to middle-class Americans.) I brought up the fact that I'd dated someone from Iowa who sincerely felt that funk music was a joke. Where he had come from, it was something to ridicule.
T. said that he really liked Stevie Wonder. Then he said, "It's not like he's a Mozart," and then chastised himself for saying what he did.
For the rest of the night, J. kept asking me about George Washington Carver, Prince, Marcus Garvey, just for kicks. (I truly hope he doesn't keep up that joke. If he does, I will have to find out how to get him back.)
It is something I've noticed lately, though. I spoke about this with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
yellowmouser to some extent. Once, when we were at Tios, people were talking about tennis, and someone really had to reach to include Venus and Serena Williams. We were talking about a completely different era of tennis (Pete Sampras, Steffi Graf).
I don't know how to address those situations, where there are people who seem to want to "include" me (or other non-majority persons) in the conversation. They perhaps are well-intentioned. But really it is another way that their racism is showing.
I think the only way to address it is to use the pointed question, as I did last night.
I ended up going to the party (I wanted to promote my poetry, but I never ended up doing so, although I did show my chapbook to J., the host).
T., a gentleman in his 50s, took an immediate interest in me, and we got to talking about various things. However, he kept bringing up assumptions. For example, when I told him I grew up in Belleville, he asked if my father had worked in the auto factories. T. let it be known that he grew up on the south side of Chicago (I immediately thought of that clip I just talked about this week).
When we were downstairs listening to music (something contemporary was on), he went out of his way to get J. to change the music to James Brown. The three of us were talking, so at one point I asked them this question (with the caveat that I didn't mean anything bad about this, I just wanted to ask the question):
Why is it, when a black person is involved in a conversation in a majority of white people, that certain white people will mention a black person of status?
I went on to say that this was a phenomenon that may be more prevalent now since Barack Obama has won the Democratic ticket. Yet, I'd seen this behavior often for the last two years. (T. said, "Two?" and I nodded.)
Then they both said that they liked the music of the 70s, and I said I love jazz and funk music, too. It was a synthesis of sound. J. said, "Well, I could talk about the Beatles." (I didn't mention at that point that the Beatles themselves had acknowledged that they had taken the style of black music of that era and sold it back to middle-class Americans.) I brought up the fact that I'd dated someone from Iowa who sincerely felt that funk music was a joke. Where he had come from, it was something to ridicule.
T. said that he really liked Stevie Wonder. Then he said, "It's not like he's a Mozart," and then chastised himself for saying what he did.
For the rest of the night, J. kept asking me about George Washington Carver, Prince, Marcus Garvey, just for kicks. (I truly hope he doesn't keep up that joke. If he does, I will have to find out how to get him back.)
It is something I've noticed lately, though. I spoke about this with
yellowmouser to some extent. Once, when we were at Tios, people were talking about tennis, and someone really had to reach to include Venus and Serena Williams. We were talking about a completely different era of tennis (Pete Sampras, Steffi Graf).I don't know how to address those situations, where there are people who seem to want to "include" me (or other non-majority persons) in the conversation. They perhaps are well-intentioned. But really it is another way that their racism is showing.
I think the only way to address it is to use the pointed question, as I did last night.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-22 10:05 pm (UTC)However, if I didn't know anything about a person, yet I wanted to converse with them or be friendly, there is not as much to go on. Sometimes, all there is to know (especially for the less observant) is the painfully obvious stuff.
You could always ask them about Richard Nixon, Sting, or or Aldous Huxley.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-23 12:09 am (UTC)At one time, Marxist-Leninists who knew I was interested in science fiction but who themselves weren't would bring up Jack London's sf. (For the past couple of decades, the Marxist-Leninists I've known outside my family have been sf readers.)
My thoughts: Don't take for granted that someone who belongs to a particular group is "of course" interested in certain things.
Tangent: Something from a conversation a while ago: -"People told me that the Baptist church near the University of Minnesota was liberal; but I figured yeah, how liberal could a Baptist church be? That was before I found out the pastor was a lesbian."
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-23 12:40 am (UTC)Since the same thing happened to you with sports, would that be sexism? If someone, looking at me and noting I was in the neighborhood of 30-something, asked me about 80's music, is that ageism? Again, I don't think so - it's just people looking for something to talk about, and starting with something that previous experience (or presumption) has led them to believe is true, instead of saying, "Hi, what do you like, so we can talk about it?"
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-23 03:34 am (UTC)That's absolutely sexism. However, that is not to be confused with misandry, which is a hatred of men. Prejudging someone does not mean that you hate them. Hate comes from fear; prejudice comes from ignorance.
If someone, looking at me and noting I was in the neighborhood of 30-something, asked me about 80's music, is that ageism?
To an extent, yes. Who would assume that anyone of any age likes a particular strain of music? However, it would not be presumptuous to believe that someone likes music. So instead of coming up to someone in their 30s and saying "So, remember Cyndi Lauper?", a new acquaintance might say "So, what music do you like?" and progress from there. Some people like pop, some reggae, some Celtic, etc., and it is ridiculous to try to peg someone's musical tastes based on their appearance.