(no subject)

[novapsyche]

Interesting post in feminist regarding Obama's use of the word "sweetie" in reference to a female reporter.

(Ever since I heard about this exchange, I've been troubled by it. I don't know how to reconcile it.)

Comments

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Well, reconcile it by comparing the use of "sweetie" to John McCain calling his wife a "c*nt" in public.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

So because something is more egregious than another, I should excuse the latter? I don't think so. If someone called me "macaca" and another person said I was "colored", I would be offended either way.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

And perhaps I am under-sensitive to think that this is irrelevant - probably why I avoid politics until the actual campaign between the candidates is underway.

[custardfairy.livejournal.com]

I'm coming from this as someone who uses the term honey, sweetie, and darlin' a lot to refer to men and women. I don't believe the words themselves are inherently sexist, and yet I can't say that Obama choosing to use "sweetie" to address a female reporter was the wisest move he's ever made.

At the same time, his immediate apology and handling of the situation is something I applaud. I know I'm sexist, too. I am imperfect and I will continue to screw up even when I know better. I'm glad Obama has done his best to make amends because he could have just gone of the defensive and made excuses. He didn't.

I'm sure it won't be the last time he makes a mistake, or behaves in a manner that indicates he isn't always as aware or proactive as we might hope.

[aiela.livejournal.com]

I pretty much call everyone, male or female, sweetie, so I'm having a hard time getting too upset about it, but I recognize that others might and that its too casual a term for a presidential candidate to use.

But I know I personally don't use it is a diminutive, just a term of endearment.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I agree with those who say it does not seem to have been said malignantly, but that it does suggest that to some degree he dismisses women. He told the reporter, "Just a moment sweetie" (or something like that) and then never got back to her to answer her question.

[timiathan.livejournal.com]

You comment so I don't have to!

I'll just add that when we're facing 8 years of fascistic federalism, an imploding economy, and the greatest crises humanity has faced since the Industrial Revolution in the end of cheap oil and concurrent global warming -- I don't care to parse one of 50 million words these people have said on tape over the last 12 months.

He screwed up, maybe it hints at a part of himself he'd like to change, nobodies perfect, move on.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't initially bring it up on my journal--I just thought the discussion in feminist was interesting. There are many ways to view the incident.

I think part of the issue is that feminists are instructed that the very language people use continues to embed sexism into our culture, so we are tasked with calling people out whenever they transgress.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

it does suggest that to some degree he dismisses women.

This seems especially insightful.

[timiathan.livejournal.com]

Oh I don't disagree at all -- I'm glad someone called him out, and I'm glad he apologized and says it's something he's working to correct. You hit the nail on the head with this comment, though...that's the thing, sexism is so embedded in our culture, it's so subtle and so pervasive and so often ignored, that slip ups like these are inevitable. The important thing is that one recognizes when they do it and why they shouldn't. I think he has.

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

Getting called "sweetie" tends to raise my hackles, because I read it as a dismissive term of address when uttered by anyone I don't consider (at minimum) a very close friend. The only people who get a pass on "sweetie", "hon", and/or "luv" are ladies over the age of 70, who grew up hearing young people addressed that way by their own elders. But it still annoys me. If you know me well enough to use "sweetie", you certainly know my first name. And if you don't know my first name, you definitely do not have permission to call me "sweetie" or "hon".

Of course, YMMV, and there's apparently cultural context, but there's my take on it.

[timiathan.livejournal.com]

Furthermore, McCain calls his wife a cunt. Hillary Clinton intentionally makes a racist argument every time she says, "Obama can't win the general election." Neither of them confess or apologize. Given the options, Obama seems noble for acknowledging his flaws.

[pstscrpt.livejournal.com]

I find it more than a little disturbing to see a significant number of women in the feminist community saying they wished more men behaved that way. I think I annoyed my mom a lot growing up by informing her that I thought a lot of the protocols she was trying to teach me were condescending and creepy.

Yeah, I was bothered by the "sweetie" thing, but I figure nobody's perfect.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

I had no idea of the McCain thing until you and fizzyland brought it up. That is just . . . sad (especially since he is still holding office).

Hillary Clinton intentionally makes a racist argument every time she says, "Obama can't win the general election."

Yes, and it disappoints me deeply to see so many people excuse her implications and/or refuse to see the inherent racism.

[custardfairy.livejournal.com]

What you said. :)

I'm glad that you pointed it out, novapsyche. I read the discussion with much interest and see a lot of valid points being made on all sides.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

I think women who call other people 'sweetie' is less problematic. Of course, I say that as a woman who calls other women (and myself) 'chick'.

But I can't quite explain why, except that there hasn't been a history of women oppressing other women by using 'sweetie' in a sexist manner. Similarly, I wouldn't be as upset if an African-American woman called her husband "boy", because lovers often call each other childlike diminutives; however, whenever a white man calls a black man out of his teens "boy", that is instant racism, I don't care the context.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

I find it more than a little disturbing to see a significant number of women in the feminist community saying they wished more men behaved that way.

I think they were talking about the fact that he immediately apologized. However, as I pointed out, the fact that someone had to tell him it was objectionable makes me less comfortable with his apology.

I figure nobody's perfect.

I realize this, too. I am glad that he will be more cognizant of the implications of his words in the future.

[eleri.livejournal.com]

see, I guess this is where I get confused. I call people sweety or hon or darlin all the time, doesn't matter what gender. And oppression or insult never mentally enters into it.

But if I was male, I would be labeled sexist, oppressive and dismissive for using the same words, with the same intent, just because I had a dick.

That strikes me as part of the whole "if it's Male, it's part of Teh Evil Establishment" mindset.

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

I agree with the "inherent racism" bit -- but, just to play a bit of "Devil's Advocate":

Isn't it also expected that one would use every tactic possible to get rid of one's rival, including pointing out that racism - both explicit and subconscious - might very well prevent Obama from being elected?

[sttatus-quo.livejournal.com]

"Just a minute, sweetie." rolls off my tongue with disturbing ease in a professional sense. I can now second guess myself about am I being patronizing (I don't think so), channeling the male patriarchy of medicine (Maybe. It's not conscious or intentional but I do use it at times to get people to comply with therapy when an appeal to reason and common sense has failed) or just being "southern" where we call everyone "honey/baby/sweetie".

My head hurts now. I thought I was being nice. I detest having to measure every word. I really do.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Race was something that everyone acknowledged at the beginning of the campaign. However, I don't see why the argument "some parts of the country are racist will not vote for a black man" should be a winning one for Ms. Clinton. "I attract the supremecist vote." "I'm the right shade." It just doesn't fly. Also, it doesn't work within the construct of the platform of the Democratic Party (the Democratic paradigm, if you will).

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

That was part of what some people were saying, that in some cultures (such as the South), this would not be derogatory at all.

At the same time, as someone over at feminist said, you can bet that no man calls another man "sweetie".

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

I am not an misandrist. However, I do see a power structure in America that is skewed to favor males (most often white). If you do not, then we cannot agree.

Certain words have power, depending on who says them and in what context. Context includes history.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

*smile* I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion.

feminist is a closed community, but if you want to have posting privileges, you need only email one of the moderators.

[sttatus-quo.livejournal.com]

Not het men, no. I hear "sweetie" all the time out of the some .. more nellie.. gay men I know.

My ex, as a nurse, used to call male patients "Chief".. which is a local New Orleans custom.

I think that het men do similar things by calling each other things like "buster" or "buddy" in particular tones.

Like everything else.. Context is *everything*.

[poetpaladin.livejournal.com]

It might just be a regionalism. I was at the airport in Atlanta, Georgia, and I approached a female employee for directions. She called me "darling" and "love."

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

Thank you for elucidating something I couldn't quite put my finger on.