Chilling article
Jul. 25th, 2006 09:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
novapsycheL.A. seeks info on 50 women in killer’s photos: Investigators fear some who posed for murderer may also be victims
The last paragraph in particular struck me:
This reaffirms what I learned in college: men who rape women do not see women as people.
My first sociological course wasn't Intro to Sociology (I kept meaning to go back and take that); it was Deviance and Social Control. I studied in-depth how stigma arises from the double-standard. How some men (often those who were sexually abused by women) consciously or unconsciously pegged women into two groups: worthwhile (sexually pure) or nothing. The Madonna/whore complex. It is a complex, and it shows its ultimate effects in the deaths of society's unmentionables: prostitutes, especially prostitutes of color.
It is this mindset that we as a society should be looking at, trying to investigate. Instead, we have TV shows that glorify the results.
Also, we need to consider women who molest little boys. We need to seek the cure at the cause. It's true that people who are molested as children are more likely to molest children. (The sins of the father shall be visited upon even the third and fourth generations.) We need to understand what underlying motivations these people have. We need to understand them.
(I realize that this particular man did not specifically seek out prostitutes. But he did share a trait with the rapists who do: he saw women as Other.)
The last paragraph in particular struck me:
Shortly after his arrest in the two killing in 1984, he pleaded no contest to an unrelated charge of forcible rape and was sentenced to eight years in state prison. (emphasis mine)
This reaffirms what I learned in college: men who rape women do not see women as people.
My first sociological course wasn't Intro to Sociology (I kept meaning to go back and take that); it was Deviance and Social Control. I studied in-depth how stigma arises from the double-standard. How some men (often those who were sexually abused by women) consciously or unconsciously pegged women into two groups: worthwhile (sexually pure) or nothing. The Madonna/whore complex. It is a complex, and it shows its ultimate effects in the deaths of society's unmentionables: prostitutes, especially prostitutes of color.
It is this mindset that we as a society should be looking at, trying to investigate. Instead, we have TV shows that glorify the results.
Also, we need to consider women who molest little boys. We need to seek the cure at the cause. It's true that people who are molested as children are more likely to molest children. (The sins of the father shall be visited upon even the third and fourth generations.) We need to understand what underlying motivations these people have. We need to understand them.
(I realize that this particular man did not specifically seek out prostitutes. But he did share a trait with the rapists who do: he saw women as Other.)
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-26 01:19 pm (UTC)This reaffirms what I learned in college: men who rape women do not see women as people.
While I am not a rapist, I certainly fit the mindset, and so I can simultaneously confirm this and tell you you're overthinking it:
men who rape women do not see people as people. The sex of the person is irrelevant-- you're all objects.
My first sociological course wasn't Intro to Sociology (I kept meaning to go back and take that); it was Deviance and Social Control.
My first psych course was Deviance and Aberration. Pleezdameetcha!
How some men (often those who were sexually abused by women) consciously or unconsciously pegged women into two groups: worthwhile (sexually pure) or nothing. The Madonna/whore complex. It is a complex, and it shows its ultimate effects in the deaths of society's unmentionables: prostitutes, especially prostitutes of color.
It's also stereotypical and oversimplified. True black-and-white madonna/whore sufferers don't exist outside Hollywood. The very root of the problem makes it far more complex in the sufferer's mind-- after all, both Madonna and whore are personified in the abuser herself, so the sufferer's mind would have to be defective to make the division so starkly. (Yes, I know that most people are so stupid they're braindead, but that's more of teh dumb than even I will give them credit for. A snake will move away from a predator that's already injured it...)
It is this mindset that we as a society should be looking at, trying to investigate. Instead, we have TV shows that glorify the results.
Back to my original assertion-- yes, the women are certainly stereotyped, but so are the men. All humans are objects-- including, in at least some cases [raises hand], the sufferer himself. The idea of "humanity" is an abstract concept with little or no meaning.
We need to understand what underlying motivations these people have. We need to understand them.
Why? Is there anything to be gained from curing us when put up against simply removing us from society? Sometimes "separate but equal" might not be such a bad thing. (When considering the idea, consider that some of us [raises hand again] might resist-- violently-- being "cured".)
There's something to be said for John Carpenter's vision in Escape from New York.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-26 08:09 pm (UTC)I disagree with this. Why wouldn't the rapist target men, then? I definitely assert this with the original article: the guy did not ask men to be photographed. He specifically targetted women.
My first sociological course wasn't Intro to Sociology (I kept meaning to go back and take that); it was Deviance and Social Control.
My first psych course was Deviance and Aberration. Pleezdameetcha!
Sociology and psychology are like mirrors. They try to analyze peoples' behavior, but on a very different scale and/or perspective. I've dated someone who's versed in psychology, and sometimes it's like we're talking past each other.
True black-and-white madonna/whore sufferers don't exist outside Hollywood.
Well, considering that Freud came up with this before Hollywood was even a phenomenon.... But I agree with you: the people who suffer from the complex suffer in very idiosyncratic ways.
both Madonna and whore are personified in the abuser herself, so the sufferer's mind would have to be defective to make the division so starkly.
Defective? It's amazing what the brain will do in order to make sense of the world. It's meant to classify and compartmentalize. I agree that such abuse would cause cognitive dissonance on a heretofor unseen scale. But the brain would continue to try to make sense out of what was going on.
Back to my original assertion-- yes, the women are certainly stereotyped, but so are the men. All humans are objects-- including, in at least some cases [raises hand], the sufferer himself. The idea of "humanity" is an abstract concept with little or no meaning.
Hmm. See, I suscribe to the idea that all humans are subjects. I agree that the idea of humanity is abstract, but as with all ideas, the concept does have some meaning.
Why? Is there anything to be gained from curing us when put up against simply removing us from society?
I meant this in opposition to dismissing these people out of hand. Not understanding them. Humans fear what they do not understand.
There's something to be said for John Carpenter's vision in Escape from New York.
You know, I still haven't seen that movie. I'm going to have to add that to