meme-licious (via xiombarg & <lj site="livejournal.com" user="hop

[novapsyche]

Well, if the Right can impeach a President for lying about a blowjob... When you see this, re-post it.

"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so."

-- President Bush, April 2004, nearly three years after he authorized secret domestic surveillance by the NSA without court orders or warrants.

Quote courtesy the transcript of Bush's speech, taken off the official White House site.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040420-2.html

Comments

[xterminal.livejournal.com]

To be scrupulously fair, to my knowledge Bush has not yet lied about this on the stand.

Now, they key word in the above sentence is "yet."

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

Who cares if he's lied on the stand? Who cares if he's lied under oath? Sure, it's a crime, but what he's done is far worse. He's CAUSED A WAR with his lies. The one above isn't by a long stretch his worst one, either. He's lied to the American people, his administration, and even possibly himself, and LOTS OF PEOPLE DIED. When Clinton lied, it was about whose orifice he came in, and it nearly got him impeached because he did it under oath. For what Bush has done they should have him drawn and quartered on public television, under oath or not.

[xterminal.livejournal.com]

Sure, it's a crime, but what he's done is far worse.

First off, "far worse" is an opinion, not a fact. I'm not saying I don't agree with that opinion (though I probably have very different reasons for agreeing with it), but the statement stands.

Second, you're now into the difference between legality and ethics. What Clinton did-- lying on the stand, under oath-- is a clear and obvious violation of the law, and is thus grounds for immediate impeachment. What Bush has done was no doubt unethical, but as far as I can discern, it wasn't illegal.

Illegal activities while in the oval office are grounds for immediate impeachment. Unethical activities might be grounds for impeachment on a case-by-case basis; if all unethical activities were grounds for impeachment, I doubt a single president to ever hold the office-- with the possible exception of Calvin Coolidge, who was too boring to be unethical-- would have held the office for a full term.

For what Bush has done they should have him drawn and quartered on public television, under oath or not.

Fine-- you probably can't impeach him beforehand, however.

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

OK, for the very specific case of LYING about the wiretaps to the populace, sure, it's legal but unethical. (And the fact that he walks that line by habit, that ANYTHING not actually illegal is considered OK, is bullshit!) Actually DOING it is highly illegal. Let me be really clear: the President is not allowed to wiretap American citizens without a warrant (as he said himself), and just SAYING that he has the power doesn't make it so! He's using the standard political tool called the Big Lie. He's trying to say he's allowed to do whatever he wants often enough that people will start to believe it, but it's bullshit. And yes, what he's done goes FAR beyond the grounds for impeachment. Impeachment is NOT a trial, it's the withdrawal of Presidential IMMUNITY to trial. Even if he was impeached (which he never will be because his cronies run the entire goddamned government), he'd still have to stand trial for crimes against the American people BEFORE any punishment could be levied.