(no subject)

[novapsyche]

First it was the "Crazy for You" bear, now it's the "Arrest Black Babies" t-shirt.

I do support free speech, so I'm not advocating censorship in any form.

I wonder how many have been sold, and where many of the orders originate.

Comments

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

From the article:
Further, the site asks, why is it that Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle can do stereotype humor without repercussions, and not Tshirthell.com?

That's a valid question. Why can only black people say "nigger" or only gay people say "fag" or "dyke"? Why can only fat people make fat jokes? Why can only jews make jew jokes? Why do you have to BE something to make fun of it? And, the corollary to that, why if you are a thing is that the ONLY thing you can make fun of? ALL black comedians make black jokes, etc.

As for that particular shirt, I wouldn't wear it but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to make it. If there's a market for it, what right does anyone have to STOP them from making it? Eddie Murphy, back in 1985, was making jokes about African bush-bitches with plate-lips and everyone just ate it up! I STILL think that Raw and Delirious are hilarious. However, if a white, brown, or yellow skinned person were to make the same jokes, either then or today, he'd get slammed by the popular press. And that's the real bullshit.

[gbdances.livejournal.com]

To me, there's a difference between free speech (the right to say whatever you like without reprisals), and getting paid for that speech.

And hate speech is hate speech. It doesn't matter whether it is targeting someone else, or self-directed. The fact that so much of what we call humor is based on the degradation of others, or ourselves, illustrates that our basic frame of reference on reality is not compassion, kindness or understanding.

As far as this particular t-shirt --- There is very little difference between "Arrest Black Babies" and "Nits Grow Into Lice" ... two expressions separated by a century and a half, half a dozen constitutional amendments, and a civil war.

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

...our basic frame of reference on reality is not compassion, kindness or understanding.

Uhh, not for nothing, but when has that EVER been the case? Name one time in history when that described the majority of the people? The truth is that people are by nature self-centered (self here including those things that make one happy, such as family and friends, but NOT strangers) and the UNnatural state is that of altruism. It's only recently, when this country became insanely rich, that we've started looking around and feeling guilty that everyone else isn't as rich as we are. It's easy to be compassionate when you're not scrambling for a living. It's not the natural state of things, though.

Most of what we call humor is based on degradation of one kind or another because that's just the way it is. As Heinlein once put it, humans laugh because if they didn't they'd cry. Having an idealistic outlook is great, but that doesn't mean that reality will follow idealism. The world sucks, and we live in it as we can. If you can see the humor in something horrible, at least take what joy you can out of it, because it is what it is.

All that said, I still think that shirt takes things a little too far, past the point of humor to the point of outright meanness. It's all a matter of degree and of perception. X amount of "degradation" is funny, Y amount is mean. But those boundaries vary from person to person.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Why can only black people say "nigger"

Do you really want me to comment on this?

The long and short of it is, American Caucasians abused this word and so they no longer are given latitude to use it. The cultural history of a word matters.

Some blacks use 'nigga' as a term of endearment, as in "He's my nigga." Alternatively, it can be used as a term of derision ("Nigga, please!"). But basically only blacks can get away with using the word, because it was used against them and now they are attempting to claim the word as their own. It is very similar to how the word 'queer' is used in GLBT communities.

I don't like the word. I was taught from a very early age that it was inappropriate. I was confused when I heard blacks calling other blacks that. I personally don't use the word except in terms of reference (as in this post, for example). My brother, on the other hand, uses it fairly liberally, as does my mother.

Increasingly, American Caucasians are being allowed to use the word again, as in the case of whites brought up or active in (poor) black neighborhoods. (I don't know about European or Australian Caucasians, but I would venture they don't feel the need to use the word, as the word would have no cultural baggage/meaning for them.) Also, whites might be called by their black friends as 'nigga' (again, usually as a term of endearment or an expression of closeness). And maybe whites even call themselves 'nigga.' That still doesn't transgress against the taboo (and that's what it is) of the word being used by whites as they historically used it against blacks as a demeaning, demoralizing term.

Why whites would want to reappropriate the word confuses me.

As for that particular shirt, I wouldn't wear it but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to make it.

I agree. This is why I reaffirmed my commitment to the First Amendment in my original post.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Also note that there is a difference between 'nigga' and 'nigger.' I've never heard a black person use 'nigger' as it was used historically in this country. Usually it's either again as reference or in the context of joking (think Eddie Murphy caricaturing white people).

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

It's only recently, when this country became insanely rich, that we've started looking around and feeling guilty that everyone else isn't as rich as we are.

Hmm. That would explain the huge tax cuts the rich have given each other in the last handful of years.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Well, don't you know? Money is now considered a form of speech. At least if you believe many conservatives these days.

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

It's one thing to feel guilty. It's another to make yourself poor to alleviate that guilt. Of COURSE they're protecting themselves first. That just proves my point that people are by nature pretty self-centered. They can then turn around and give a few hundred thousand that they don't need anyway to the charity of their choice (IF they feel like it) and say "Look at me, I'm a good person even though I'm rich!"

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

They can then turn around and give a few hundred thousand that they don't need anyway to the charity of their choice

And get a tax break, don't forget.

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

My point, though, is that while Eddie Murphy is allowed both to caricature white people and use the word because he's black, a white person wouldn't be given the same latitude. A white person either caricaturing black people (even as a stereotype, the way Eddie does) or using the word (in either of its forms) would be run out of town!

It's the whole attitude of "We were wronged horribly once by your ancestors, so YOU still owe us" that pisses me off. The same for native americans. Did white people commit acts of genocide in the 1800s? Yes. Does that mean that all white people TODAY owe them for it? No. This "sins of the father" coming down umpteen generations bugs the hell out of me. The world isn't what it once was, and playing on guilt from decades or centuries ago is NOT the way to move on. It's easy to wallow in past persecutions, real or imagined, much easier than getting up and moving past them. I'm not trying to defend those who did wrong; I'm defending those who did NOTHING wrong but are being held responsible for wrongs that people LIKE them did a long time ago. Example: my mother was half-german; does that make ME responsible for Auschwitz? No. Extend that same example across about 15 generations and you have a picture of what's being done now.

[prema.livejournal.com]

yeah that site is on my blacklist..

recently on feminist - http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist/1620293.html - a post featured one of their tshirts that read: "I like my women like I like my coffee." and on the back.. "ground up and in the freezer."

uhwhat?
it's beyond tasteless. I've never been for censorship - but if something even reeks of racism or sexism, regardless of the gender/ethnicity of the person cracking the joke - i'd condemn it.

[davehogg.livejournal.com]

Do they have the right to make the shirt? Yes.

Do they have the right to sell the shirt? Sadly, probably they do.

Do we have the right to publicize this and see how long it takes to put them out of business? Damn right.

[hozed.livejournal.com]

Tshirthell is an equal opportunity offender.

They have a red/blue map of the election with two t-shirt designs:
One is "Blue = Democrats, Red = Complete morons", the other is "Red = Republicans, Blue = Idiotic Crybabies"

Getting all this publicity and people pissed off is *exactly what they wanted*. The attitude behind most of the stuff on the site is pretty much to do whatever is going to offend people the most.

The only agenda these people (and *most* of the people that probably buy these shirts) have is to watch people get offended and go ballistic.

If you really want to do something, just ignore it, otherwise you're just inadvertently feeding into the whole mess.

They have a "Arrest white babies"

[hozed.livejournal.com]

Arrest white babies
before they become child molesting, serial killing, blue eyed mother fucking devils

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=419


There is also one that says "Bring Back Slavery" with a picture of two whitey's in business-type clothes picking cotton and a black guy standing over them in the background.

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=228

Re: They have a "Arrest white babies"

[chai-tease.livejournal.com]

my exact thoughts when is aw that were "is that REALLY the most offensive shirt tshirthell.com HAS?" they like to offend everyone, i dont think it has one god damn thing to do with race or gender. they offend white people, black people, hispanics, asians, conservatives, liberals, adults, children, rich people, poor people.. they have something to offend everyone.
as one of my students put it, when another accused me of being racist, "no, she hates everyone just the same."

Re: They have a "Arrest white babies"

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

It is possible to be a misanthrope and a racist.

I'm a xenophobe in general--I just don't like people, and given the chance I'd rather spend time alone. But I try consciously to not make that decision on the level of race.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with offending or being offended. I'm often crass, or at least my sense of humor is. It's very hard to offend me. The t-shirt in question doesn't necessarily offend me, but I was taken aback the first time I saw it.

Re: They have a "Arrest white babies"

[chai-tease.livejournal.com]

yeah, i explained to my students that i didnt hate all races, i hated all humans.
i dont condone the shirts they sell, some of them do offend me, but there are some i think are funny as hell that i am sure would offend others. i figure if you express your opinion (or in this case, a joke) someone is gonna get pissed off. i think the white one is funny, and i am white. i dont get shocked at it at all. just like i dont get offended at their sexist ones. *shrug*