(no subject)

[novapsyche]

[Poll #928829]

Comments

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

I think it's pretty much OK to hate child molesters as a group, but I can't think of too many other groups I'd say it was OK to hate.

You can't reallly illegalize hate (they try to ban hate speech in parts of Europe, but that doesn't mean they're illegalizing the hating), but I certainly think social sanctions against bigoted asshats are entirely appropriate.

[vrax.livejournal.com]

What do you mean by group? If you're talking about ethnicity or sexuality or something that one is born with or into without one's consent, then it's not ok to hate that sort of group. Whereas if you decide to hate "Child molesters" then that's ok, IMO.

I didn't check any result yet because I'm waiting for you to clarify.

[guppiecat]

I was once at dinner with my ex's family, and her father espoused the belief that everyone has at least one ethnic group that they despise. He then launched into a tirade against those of African and Hispanic ethnicities. After doing this for 5-10 minutes he then asked me, point blank, which group I hated.

Since I didn't want to cause a scene, I chose the Inuits.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

What do you mean by group?

I mean a segment of the population.

If you're talking about ethnicity or sexuality or something that one is born with or into without one's consent, then it's not ok to hate that sort of group.

The issue of sexuality being something that is out of one's control is still debated (although I personally think that it is not chosen). So, what you're saying is that if someone thinks that homosexuality (or heterosexuality, for that matter) is opted, then it's okay for that person to hate the group of people that chooses that identity. As the question is still up in the air, I don't know how to narrow that for you.

As far as the group of child molesters goes, I personally believe it's society's right to punish crime, and child molesters (or any other molester) should be punished for their actions. But, you know, I don't hate Michael Jackson, although I have strong suspicions that he molested children. I want him to be away from children. But I don't hate him. Same for rapists or murderers. Those people (if those labels are correctly attached) have committed crimes, and as criminals they should be punished for what they've done.

[vrax.livejournal.com]

I don't hate very many people at all, but that wasn't the question, was it? I find that hating anyone tends to be an unhealthy way to live.

What are you really asking here? If people think it's "ok" in a hypothetical and largely meaningless way, if it's "ok" in the sense of condoning, or if it's "ok" in the sense of endorsing/recommending?

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

In the sense of endorsement or condoning. Condoning would fall under the third choice, I think.

[netmouse.livejournal.com]

8nod* I'm pretty much with you on this one. It's ok to hate what a group of people *does* so long as you don't think you know the people or hate the people based on what group they belong to.

So in a way, I think it's ok to hate a group, as long as you're thinking "I hate that organization" or whatever. Hating individuals en mass isn't good. People can change.

[vrax.livejournal.com]

I went with choice three, but maybe I should have gone with other.

Basically I think it's a very bad idea and practice to be hateful toward any one, as a group or an individual. However if that hatred is your only motivation to remain vigilant in trying to hold whatever moral/political ground you feel is sacred than I condone that type of hate.

For example I hate George W. Bush and I utilize that hatred as a motivational tool to remain politically active because I am not mature enough to focus on the positive results of fighting those battles. Or something.

[quility.livejournal.com]

Ok, I'm trying to comment without first reading other comments.

I think all emotions are ok. Hate in the form of an emotion is ok.

Hate acts are not ok.

And I think that "healthy" hate would have a tendency to be a short thing. I Hate the person who just cut me off. Ok I did experience a brief sense of strong anger - but in the big picture - I calm down and it's not a big deal.

Can hate be justified long term? I have a tendency to think Hate long term is a sign of a misunderstanding or something societal that really should be addressed.... that hate is a symptom.

Hate speech is harder... I believe in freedom of speech, but I think talking hatefully - just reveals one's own ignorance or unwilliness(?) to try to solve a problem.

Do I hate long term? yes. I often experience Hate toward my brother in law, who is homophobic and believes it is justified. I say hateful things about him... and yes that reveals my inability to try to solve the problem.

If I were living in a war zone - I think I would hate the "enemy." but there are probably more enlightened, healthier approaches.

ok reading other comments. Yes I agree that Hating (what I would call long term) is not a very healthy way to live. Would I condone it? Well, if I were trying to raise kids - I would try to encourage them to see the bigger picture and see if their hate is really serving them. So I guess I really don't condone hate - but I'm certainly in no position to judge it.

[jdoggiedogg.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing that this is in response to the Gay bashing sport's star. That was appalling. More people should be appalled. That sort of thing should not be allowed. I am feeling so strongly about that point that I am not willing to accept the possibility of hating any group other than those who would seek to hate groups, which means that I do hate a group. ... Oops. Darned people who hate entire groups. I hate them. But I guess I can't really hate them, but I can pity them. But gosh darned it I do just hate them. Why can't we just see people as individuals rather than grouping and judging. The idea of prejudging homosexuals is so offensive. I was and am appalled. It makes me ashamed to be a part of society which does not condemn hatred againt people based on sexuality. It would be so much easier, rather than to write down which groups we're not allowed to hate and being okay with it if some group doesn'e fall on the list, maybe it would be better to just not hate.

[rmeidaking.livejournal.com]

If a person hates a group, it reflects more on themselves than on the group. In my experience, it generally indicates an irrational fear born of ignorance.

It's "okay" to hate a group in the same way that it's "okay" to have a phobia and not get treatment for it. Which is to say, it's not okay, but it's hard to fix, and has to be done on a person-by-person basis.

It doesn't help when people who are supposed to be moral leaders, such as clergy and political leaders, advocate the supremacy of one group over another. Any time such a person starts saying, "Our people are better than the rest," there's eventually going to be trouble. Unfortunately, that is a basic way to achieve personal power - by putting others down - and so it is promoted throughout society that "we" are better than "them" for wide and varying values of "we" and "them".

And yet everyone does it. Everyone has a list: 'smart' people over 'dumb'; 'jocks' over 'nerds' (or the other way around); ad infinitum. I think this may in fact be an instinctive development, to ally oneself with the 'best' group and thus improve one's odds of survival. Having been recently dealing with raising children, it's clearly something that they think up on their own, and very young. Teachers and parents have to fight the urge to form cliques and to pick out a child to belittle *all the time*. Imagine if instead those individuals said that it was okay to ostracize a particular group; it would take years to rectify.

That's where American society is today: we're having to unlearn and re-learn and accept people who are different from ourselves as equals. It's not easy!!

You asked why a person who had personally experienced discrimination would have these feelings. In short, because they can. Longer version: It makes that person able to say, "X may not like me, but I'm still better than Y."

It's a complicated issue, and the best way to deal with it is head on and out in the open.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

See, I don't hate GWB (although I have to remind myself of that sometimes). I hate his policies, and I hate what he has done to the office of the Presidency. I think he and others in his administration have committed criminal acts and should be imprisoned (starting with impeachment, of course). But I don't hate the man himself. I don't know him.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

It would be so much easier, rather than to write down which groups we're not allowed to hate and being okay with it if some group doesn'e fall on the list, maybe it would be better to just not hate.

Sounds good to me. :)

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Hate speech is harder... I believe in freedom of speech, but I think talking hatefully - just reveals one's own ignorance or unwilliness(?) to try to solve a problem.

I totally agree with you. Speech is speech (unless it starts a riot and/or directly leads to violent crime such as murder), and as a defender of the Bill of Rights I will defend any and everyone's right to speak, even if I strenuously disagree with the content of that speech.

But while everyone is entitled to their speech, are they entitled to remain esconced in their ignorance, even when there are ample opportunities to confront that ignorance? I don't think so. I think people have an obligation to examine their irrationalities and try to become more enlightened (or at least come to some idea of "live and let live").

I often experience Hate toward my brother in law, who is homophobic and believes it is justified.

But you obviously know him. You're not grouping him sight unseen into an amorphous aggregate of people and judging him before you come into contact with his actual ideas or his personality. I understand that people can harbor grudges or antipathy toward others that have wronged them in the past. I am speaking more toward prejudice, which is what I would consider homophobia to be of a type.

If I were living in a war zone - I think I would hate the "enemy."

That's tough. I don't have an opinion one way or the other about this, because I've never been put in that situation. I think it would be easy to conflate an enemy army with the countrymen from said nation, and so I guess one would hate by the transitive property. Still, there are rules of engagement in war where prisoners need to be treated humanely, which means recognizing the humanity in the soldier. And if you do that, I don't see how hate truly comes into play. Not individual hate toward that soldier.

I know that there are many Iraqis who hate all Americans, and considering what our country has done to theirs, I can't say I blame them. But I would hold any individual Iraqi responsible for indiscriminate attacks against Americans, just as I feel American soldiers should be tried and imprisoned for attacking Iraqis outside the rules of engagement.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Addendum: Unless they're Republicans.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Heh.

I don't agree with the vast majority of tenets that Republicanism holds to. Yet a good percentage of my friends have been Republicans, and I managed not to hold that (too much) against them.

That said, I did have the idea years ago to print up buttons and bumper stickers that said "Republicans happen."

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

I would vote for "It's not okay to hate a group, but you should feel free to voice your feelings if that's your opinion." Just expect to get a verbal smackdown from me if you do so <VEG>

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

*snicker*

You should have picked some ridiculous group. Like Australians.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

See my comment below to vrax about child molesters.

You can't reallly illegalize hate [...], but I certainly think social sanctions against bigoted asshats are entirely appropriate.

I am in complete agreement.

A great deal of the headlines in the aftermath of the Hardaway controversy talk about how he has been "banished" from the All-Star festivities, how he's been "shunned," etc. I think that's just fine. He should be feeling a good deal of shame right now, and perhaps that (along with the loss of his endorsements) will cause him to reexamine his comments and the ideas behind them.

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

I'd've been tempted to answer "White Christian Males". Or something equivalently applicable.

(Shoe, meet the other foot...)

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

Except that the guy probably would've assumed "Australian Aborigines"... *rolls eyes*

[vrax.livejournal.com]

Yeah that's exactly where I'd like to be. And I am on that path, but in all honesty I'm still mired in my hatred for him.

I try to stay focused on the path and not the destination at this point in my journey.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Fair enough. I think I avoided that option because I think the vast majority of people would pick it. I mean, if you believe in freedom of speech, then you believe in freedom of thought--and that means support of someone hating a group and voicing the same.

I believe the KKK has a right to exist as an organization--I believe in the right to assemble. I would hope that I would be like Keshia Thomas, keeping anti-KKK demonstrators from assaulting someone who was exercising his freedoms.

Disagreement with someone does not have to boil down to hatred of that person.

[kdorian.livejournal.com]

To quote Tom Lehrer, "I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that!"

I'm pretty much one or two, with a bit of four when it comes to people who deliberately harm children or those otherwise defenseless.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

The totality of all the individuals that I hate would constitute a group,even if,as is the case before my first cup of coffee,that group constitutes the entirety of the human race,or,say,six unconnected individuals.
Therefor,either it is not proper to hate anyone at all,or at least no more than one person at a time,or it is necessary to establish which group or groups it is or is not appropriate to hate.

[chimalis.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I should have checked "other", but reading the poll leads me to believe you're thinking of "hate" as something backed by reasoning. In that case, my choice stands.

I think it's hard to control hate or loathing as an emotional reaction to something - I might discover an untruth of GWB's and think "I hate him!" but know logically that it's the lying actions I hate. I think hate as a logically reasoned "category" in your mind, where you place people/groups of people and could then make an argument for hatred of the people/groups is wrong; that it's a fatally flawed way to think. Americans (and maybe all people in all nations) spend a lot of time on the problem, and not much in a solution mindset. Hatred is nothing but a problem mindset.

[dionysus1999.livejournal.com]

Woulda choose WASP's.