Prop 2

[novapsyche]

Race Preferences Vote Splits Michigan

For the University of Michigan, the proposition would require broader changes than the Supreme Court did; it ruled in Ms. Gratz’s case and a companion case that while the consideration of race as part of the law school’s admissions policy was constitutional, a formula giving extra points to minority undergraduate applicants was not.

The president of the university, Mary Sue Coleman, an opponent of the proposition, said its reach could extend into K to 12 education.

“It would make it illegal to have our program targeting girls in junior high school, and having them come to campus to learn about science and engineering,” Ms. Coleman said. “I’m a woman scientist, and I know how fragile our gains are.”

[...] [One United Michigan] members said Proposition 2 would hamper employers’ efforts to diversify their work forces. They said it would also force some local governments to eliminate outreach and set-aside programs for minority contractors and would diminish the already-meager representation of black and Hispanic students at the flagship university here.

“It would be like slamming a door on progress,” Ms. Coleman said. “I will do everything that’s legal to help us attract minority students. But it’s already having a chilling effect.”

[...] Ms. Peterson and others at the [University of Michigan] emphasized that because there were so many white applicants and so few blacks, an end to affirmative action would not substantially increase white students’ odds of admission. In their book, “The Shape of the River,” Derek C. Bok and William G. Bowen estimated that if selective universities had race-blind admissions, the probability of white students’ admission would rise only slightly — to 26.5 percent from 25 percent — while black students’ admissions would decline by half. (emphasis mine)

---

The Law and Race in the United States: An Outline for Understanding

Comments

[dionysus1999.livejournal.com]

I wonder how it would affect female-to-male ratios. There are lots of programs that recruit women into traditionally male disciplines.

[simianpower.livejournal.com]

I hate to say it, but if the probability of black students getting admitted is THAT dependent on unfair advantages, there SHOULD be less of them there. If their scores don't match the scores of those they're competing against, why should they win? Affirmative action had its uses in the sixties, but I think that time's passed. In particular, I think that continuing to have a race-based advantage system in place basically tells black students two things: you aren't good enough to do it on your own, and you don't HAVE to be good enough to do it on your own. I have a problem with both statements. Equal treatment doesn't mean just equal privileges; equal responsibilities, equal challenges, equal expectations are also part of it. I've said that in the male/female privilege discussion, and I feel the same about the black/white case.

That said, I'm still in favor of programs that try to get minority students into science/engineering fields, mainly through targeted programs at the jr. high and high school level. I worked on a program targeted at getting high school girls interested in micromachining a few summers ago, and the results were fairly cool. I just don't think that, should they apply to, say, UM Engineering school, that they should get "extra points" for being female. They should have to compete on equal footing once they get to the game! But getting them interested, that's a different story.

[bonerici.livejournal.com]

if black student admissions are cut in half, but black average graduation rate doubles . . . seems good to me!

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

P. and I are going to be canceling out each other's votes on Prop 2, but I do agree with him on one point: we need to start addressing inequality well before people get to college.

We need to start encouraging discriminated-against minorities to get into science, engineering etc. earlier, address inequality of school funding at the elementary and high school level, etc.

On a side note, I'm more concerned about affirmative action as regards race, not gender, since there are more women in college than men at this point.

[brendand.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to take a minute to say thank you for debating with me in a civilized and adult fashion. After several comments between myself and others, and solely among others, it has become apparent to me that there are people out there who insist on attacking people and telling them they're wrong at the same time. <sarcasm>What better way to get someone to agree with you than to attack their credibility and assert their stupidity?</sarcasm>

While you and I agree on many things, we disagree on some. And we both respect each other, through it all.

Thank you.